bs”d
We put this out there for our reader’s consideration. Would love to hear from you…what do you think?
Chemtrails…just the latest conspiracy theory fad, or is the danger REAL?
15/06/2008 · 25 Comments
Categories: Conspiracy Theories · Life in America
Tagged: chemtrails, conspiracies, contrails
25 responses so far ↓
rainbojangles // 19/06/2008 at 09:05
Hardly the “latest” conspiracy theory “fad”.
I have been watching the lingering skylines since they first became apparent in the late 90’s. The fact that they are only just now coming to the notice of most folks attests to how well indoctrinated most of us are within the confines of the fabricated “information” matrix which so many assume to be truth, or reality.
I had never heard the term “chemtrail” when I first noticed them, nor was I even familiar with the concept. I had never even been online (late cyber bloomer), so there was no chance of any type of association through suggestion. I simply looked up, and trusted my own senses, and memory. I had watched jets in the sky for 40+ years, since before the “sonic boom” days, and had never seen anything like what was going on over my head. It would be several years before I learned this is a global problem creating many questions, with few answers forthcoming from those “on high”.
Here is the very first chemtrail pic I took from my backyard in Portland, OR last winter:
http://a226.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/18/l_88407e8eabad88e7591fa2a0a1cb23f1.jpg
Here is the same circle a short time later. I have observed jets using this “conversion point” hundreds of times over the past 6 months.
http://a748.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/103/l_7d099505f2ac014963192bc5c35e29db.gif
It is hard to tell from the image, but the jet making the circle continued on it’s original heading afterward, so this maneuver is difficult to explain, and was certainly not an ordinary course change.
After nearly a week of clear, blue skies in Portland, without a single chemtrail, they are back today. We can say goodbye to blue skies for a while. Maybe days. Maybe weeks. I will be streaming lve video of the “sky spiders” from my stickam account here:
http://www.stickam.com/pdxskycam
I don’t know if my player will go live here, but here is the html.
Live Chemtrail Coverage Portland, Oregon SKY CAM
Keep looking up. Chemtrails are “real”.
~Rainbojangles
Michelle // 20/06/2008 at 11:47
Life in America? It seemed British to me…
With the increase in military activity throughout the world, doesn’t it seem we will have more planes flying overhead? It would be much easier to poison us all through the water systems, don’tcha think?
hmmmmmm…..?
rainbojangles // 07/07/2008 at 02:30
“Easier to poison us all through the water systems, don’tcha think?”
Yes, it once was (and cheaper), that is why it has been done for nearly a century, and why many countries have rejected fluoridation and it’s proven detrimental health effects, as well as the broadly refuted psuedo-science which allowed it’s introduction in the first place.
It is pretty easy to speculate if you don’t actually do research OR watch the skies yourself. I have found that most won’t even entertain the concept of metallic pollutants being dispersed by jets, when it has been done for decades in the form of cloud seeding. Silver iodide has never been proven safe to breathe, either, but that doesn’t stop them from releasing it over populated areas.
The problem is, sheeple don’t like to look up. It hurts their necks.
The prospect of being completely helpless as we go about our daily lives, slowly absorbing and ingesting harmful substances (and there are already too many) is so overwhelming that it causes a profound disconnect in most people, and makes them unable to even seriously consider such a possibility. It’s just too big.
I don’t blame anyone for being skeptical, I am an extreme skeptic myself, but I do blame people for remaining ignorant when truth is laid before them. That is a choice.
There are numerous U.S. patents for the aerosolization of fine metallic powders through their addition to jet fuel and dispersal through jet exhaust. All the info needed to find the answer to the question posed as the title of this blog is readily available to the serious researcher, perhaps not so to the casual armchair speculator.
Happy hunting.
~Rbj
elyakatz // 07/07/2008 at 14:26
bs”d
Michelle,
Yes, the video was British. I put it under “Life In America” because I’ve observed similar things happening here in America. People all over the world are wondering about this, not just because of what they read on the internet, but because of what they see overhead.
Rbj writes,
“The prospect of being completely helpless as we go about our daily lives, slowly absorbing and ingesting harmful substances (and there are already too many) is so overwhelming that it causes a profound disconnect in most people, and makes them unable to even seriously consider such a possibility. It’s just too big.”
I think therein lies much of the problem. There are other reasons why we are all rather slow to observe what is going on around us.
1) We are entertaining ourselves to death.
2) We’re too busy being consumers to look up.
2) We let mass media educate us and formulate our thoughts for us. When I hear people talk about politics, I’m amazed to hear most people parroting exactly what they hear on the radio and TV. (I’ve been guilty myself.)
3) Many Americans spend so much time working just to pay debts, they don’t have time to think things through.
4) Many Americans feel so cruddy all the time, they don’t have the energy to things things through.
5) Many American parents are so busy trying to either protect their children from the horrible, immoral and self-destructive cultural influences invading their lives every day, they don’t have time or energy to think things through, that…or they’ve lost the battle and now are dealing with seriously messed up children or grand-children, and thus…don’t have time or energy to think things through.
6) Many Americans see exactly what’s going on all around them, from the food, to the water, to the air, to the medical system, legal system, “justice” system, education system, and political system, and any other system that has profound effects on each and every one of us, and have concluded that it’s a waste of time and energy to argue or fight. They’ve given up and just try to be as happy as they can manage…or not.
I don’t think most people are stupid or sheeple though.
RBj writes,
“There are numerous U.S. patents for the aerosolization of fine metallic powders through their addition to jet fuel and dispersal through jet exhaust. All the info needed to find the answer to the question posed as the title of this blog is readily available to the serious researcher, perhaps not so to the casual armchair speculator.”
With regard to the patents, that is interesting. I’ll have to look into it. But as for using the term, “armchair speculator”, I prefer to realize that we can’t all be experts in everything, and that would be for many of the reasons I’ve enumerated above.
Best,
Ellie
truthseeker666 // 12/08/2008 at 08:07
Aug 11th 2008
There hasn’t been a chemtrail sprayed now for something like two months now,which is weird,because why would they just stop? I have a blog out right now on these Contrails or what conspiracy theorist call chemtrails,but since I now have become a theorist myself,& the reason being,is that there is no supportive info on these chemtrails that the Government has for us,so that being the truth & all,there is something fishy going on & its really bad for the human race. Anyways,I have been doing my research & concluded my findings into a fine analogy,& it seems that these trails could be in close relations with a nano particle called Smartdust,go to here myspace.com/myspacedeletsprofiles & check out my blogs,Chemtrail SmartDusting The World For A Safer Illusion & Spies in the Skies,these are the title names to my blogs I posted.
~Truth Seeker
elyakatz // 12/08/2008 at 13:55
bs”d
I put your comment up for the sake of information. Looked briefly at your blog.
A friendly suggestion: If you want to be taken seriously, you need to invest a little more time and energy in making sure you express your views clearly. I only vaguely understand what it is you’re trying to say here.
Best,
Elya
jazzroc // 27/11/2008 at 07:53
There’s just a lot of planes in the air all the time, leaving ice trails from their engine exhausts. The water cannot escape quickly enough from the stratosphere and backs up as cirrus clouds.
Details at jazzroc.wordpress.com
elyakatz // 04/12/2008 at 16:53
BS”D
That might be a plausible explanation for high altitude trails, but I have seen many trails behind planes that are very low altitude. It’s not hard to make that judgment if one is close enough to the plane in question.
Furthermore, on a single day, I first observed the lower altitude trails, one similar to those who believe in the existence of chemtrails. Not 1/3 hour later, I observed the much higher altitude contrail. The first trail lasted for hours, the contrail disappeared within minutes, it’s trail never becoming very long.
jazzroc // 23/03/2009 at 08:31
“I have seen many trails behind planes that are very low altitude”
Only light aircraft flying VFR fly at low altitude. Island-hoppers fly between 10 and 20K feet. All the rest choose the stratosphere between 27 and 40K feet – they are DESIGNED to fly there – the stratosphere is STABLE and enables comfortable and safe travel without turbulence. The temperature there varies from -40 to -80 deg C, which is VERY COLD.
“It’s not hard to make that judgment if one is close enough to the plane in question.”
Is the statement of someone WITHOUT that judgment. You are at least FIVE MILES away from it.
“The first trail lasted for hours, the contrail disappeared within minutes, its trail never becoming very long.”
They were BOTH contrails. They were BOTH in the stratosphere. “Stratum” means LAYER. The existence of LAYERS means the existence of DIFFERENT HUMIDITIES in the stratosphere.
An aircraft’s engines burn KEROSINE to CARBON DIOXIDE and STEAM.
Exhaust steam freezing almost instantly into ice at such low temperatures may SUBLIME to invisible water vapor in a dry layer, or REMAIN AS ICE CRYSTALS in an (ICE) saturated layer.
If the aircraft are at differing heights (and it’s usually the intention of Air Traffic Control to ensure they are) then it is QUITE NORMAL to see one aircraft leave a persistent trail while the other does not.
Is it NORMAL for you to accept the advice of non-scientists and reject the advice of scientists in such matters?
There are 645 scientific papers on this topic freely available in Google right now…
elyakatz // 23/03/2009 at 10:40
BS”D
No need to get in a tizzy about it. I’m not convinced either way. Scientists can be wrong you know, and as a non-scientist, I reserve the right to question both sides. Strident attitudes on either side cause me to wonder what the given agenda is exactly.
Example: Doctors are scientists, are they not? They’re wrong a lot. I can attest to that in my own life. I’ve often diagnosed an illness of a family member or myself accurately before the so-called expert. It’s not a pretty sight to see either, a doctor who’s been outdiagnosed.
Another example: There are scientists on both sides of the global warming controversy.
Scientists are trained and intelligent people, but they are human just like the rest of us. As such, they are not above being paid to come to conclusions that are convenient for TPTB, if only in what sort of funding they can or cannot get from a given source. Don’t think that doesn’t color the outcome.
So, yes, it’s normal for me to question just about everybody except G-d.
jazzroc // 23/03/2009 at 18:11
Well I DO get a bit twitchy about a growing mass of malcontents intimating without any evidence that hundreds of thousands of professional and hard-working people (the aviation industry) are apparently conducting a campaign of unselective mass murder. Why don’t you?
It’s not a blythe concept, is it?
It’s especially irritating to discover that it is fuelled by the ignorance and scientific misunderstanding which has arrived as a consequence of a deliberate right-wing “dumb-down” of education which was perpetrated in the seventies.
A microsecond wasted on this bunkum (which I would have understood it to be by the time I was eight years old) by anyone is a wasted moment of life. The time could be better spent finding the true causes of respiratory infections, learning to understand the science of the Earth, or merely going for a walk in the park.
It’s a beautiful world, or it was…
Professional people can be fallible because they are human, but do you SERIOUSLY believe that 645 co-authored scientific papers from thousands of scientists from all over the world are fabricating the truth, not just now, but since 1953?
Your not questioning G-d may well explain this… do you have any physical evidence for him/her/it? No, forget that last part…
elyakatz // 23/03/2009 at 18:44
BS”D
“Well I DO get a bit twitchy about a growing mass of malcontents intimating without any evidence that hundreds of thousands of professional and hard-working people (the aviation industry) are apparently conducting a campaign of unselective mass murder. Why don’t you?”
That’s the price we pay for living with freedom of expression. But then, maybe folks from your neck of the woods don’t know much about freedom of expression.
I never said anything here about non-selective mass murder. Perhaps there are additives in the fuel for the purpose of weather modification, for insurance purposes. I’m simply someone who asks questions.
There’s a lot of strange things going on. Open your eyes. The FDA holds up shipments of successful and vital “alternative” therapies at ports, while “blythly” allowing mercury and formaldehyde in processed food, mercury in our fillings, lead in baby formula.
If anything creepy is going on in the skies overhead, might be that most people aren’t in on it. I don’t suggest out and out knowing fabrication. I suggest subtle bias, due to who funds the research. It has happened. It happens. It will happen again.
Furthermore, I never said I didn’t question religion. I don’t question the Creator of the Universe. I do question people, all the time. Don’t you?? I suggest that someone who denies His existence usually places his faith in something else…in your case, science.
To cite a very simple example: If you walked into a room that had a beautiful to scale model of the solar system, would you assume it had appeared on it’s own, or would you assume someone had put the whole thing together, some intelligent and creative human? So how is it that the real universe simply happened without an Intelligent Designer?
You don’t like my questions and views, no one is forcing you to visit my blog. Perhaps you should stop wasting your precious microseconds here, especially since I obviously don’t have the intelligence you possessed when you were eight. Do you disagree with everyone in such a condescending manner and if so, how many friends do you have, or all they all smart asses like yourself? You’re not going to stop me from wondering by trying to embarrass me.
I might look at your cited links sometime if I feel like it. Any of my visitors who want to dig into your POV will welcome them and I thank you for taking the time to put them up here.
One of the benefits of trusting in a compassionate Supreme Being that is very interested in my ultimate well being is that I can simply hand the problem over to Him. He has more influence than I. You see, even if something is happening in the skies, I can’t do a hell of a lot about it, so I ponder it once in awhile and then move on to matters in which I know I can make a difference.
I prefer spending the bulk of my blogging time alerting people to obvious, real and present dangers that are very palpable — such as the global threat to our way of life by fanatic jihadis, and to defending small, beleaguered nations that mean no harm to anyone, just wanting to live in peace, such as Israel. I haven’t put a post up about chemtrails in months.
All the best,
jazzroc // 23/03/2009 at 22:33
“maybe folks from your neck of the woods don’t know much about freedom of expression.”
Well, I’m a Welshman, my name’s Tony Duncan, I’m a retired designer (I designed the world’s first mass-produced ethernet transceiver, the basic unit of all networks, including the WWW, so I think you can assume I’m in favor of freedom of expression), now living in the Canary Isles.
“I never said anything here about non-selective mass murder.”
Ah, but they do…
“mercury and formaldehyde in processed food, mercury in our fillings, lead in baby formula.”
Are the consequences of going into production before fully understanding the science. It was worse in the past. They used to market RADIUM health drinks!
“might be that most people aren’t in on it. I suggest subtle bias, due to who funds the research”.
And the bias in 1953 was?
“I don’t question the Creator of the Universe”
Nor do I. I cannot find him. Can you?
“someone who denies His existence usually places his faith in something else… in your case, science.”
I don’t acknowledge faith at all. Nor myths. I do acknowledge the consequences of other people’s faiths and myths – one has to. But I acknowledge just science – something testable. Science requires NO faith.
“how is it that the real universe simply happened without an Intelligent Designer?”
A good question, which Science addresses (and mostly answers) as best it can. “Why should the Universe have required a designer?” is both a scientific and a philosophical question, bearing upon Homo Sapiens’ deepest needs.
“You don’t like my questions and views”
I don’t mind your questions and don’t know your views.
“I obviously don’t have the intelligence you possessed when you were eight”
Isn’t a conclusion you should have drawn. The word you should have used was “information”.
“I might look at your cited links sometime if I feel like it.”
Thanks very much. http://jazzroc.wordpress.com is chock full of links.
“trusting in a compassionate Supreme Being that is very interested in my ultimate well being”
Doesn’t mean a thing to me. Why does he let Hezbollah’s rockets land in Israel?
“I prefer spending the bulk of my blogging time alerting people to obvious, real and present dangers that are very palpable — such as the global threat to our way of life by fanatic jihadis, and to defending small, beleaguered nations that mean no harm to anyone”
I would have thought a REAL global threat to be CLIMATE CHANGE… Are you burning fossil fuels?
elyakatz // 24/03/2009 at 02:53
“maybe folks from your neck of the woods don’t know much about freedom of expression.”
Well, I’m a Welshman, my name’s Tony Duncan, I’m a retired designer (I designed the world’s first mass-produced ethernet transceiver, the basic unit of all networks, including the WWW, so I think you can assume I’m in favor of freedom of expression), now living in the Canary Isles.
“I never said anything here about non-selective mass murder.”
Ah, but they do…
I’m not going to be held responsible for what “they say”. Argue with “them” about their irresponsible claims.
“mercury and formaldehyde in processed food, mercury in our fillings, lead in baby formula.”
Are the consequences of going into production before fully understanding the science. It was worse in the past. They used to market RADIUM health drinks!
I don’t necessarily recommend so-called “health drinks” either. Plain food is the best food, or made homemade in one’s own kitchen. You make my point. Many things are not revealed to the public until after they suffer the effects.
“might be that most people aren’t in on it. I suggest subtle bias, due to who funds the research”.
And the bias in 1953 was?
The bias I refer to is one that claims “no harm done”, whatever it is we’re doing, don’t worry about it.
“I don’t question the Creator of the Universe”
Nor do I. I cannot find him. Can you?
Cute. I see evidence of Him, such as, eh…the Universe.
“someone who denies His existence usually places his faith in something else… in your case, science.”
I don’t acknowledge faith at all. Nor myths. I do acknowledge the consequences of other people’s faiths and myths – one has to. But I acknowledge just science – something testable. Science requires NO faith.
But trusting other people’s words, actions and intentions certainly requires something akin to faith.
“how is it that the real universe simply happened without an Intelligent Designer?”
A good question, which Science addresses (and mostly answers) as best it can.
Not to my satisfaction it doesn’t.
“Why should the Universe have required a designer?” is both a scientific and a philosophical question, bearing upon Homo Sapiens’ deepest needs.
Something as amazing and orderly as the universe doesn’t happen through random activity. It’s common sense, something often profoundly lacking in the over-educated.
“You don’t like my questions and views”
I don’t mind your questions and don’t know your views.
First of all the actual quote is “If you don’t like my questions and views”… Second, You have a funny way of showing you don’t mind my questions, and some of my views are expressed on the blog. I have no strong conviction one way or the other on the question of chemtrails.
You’re insulting, and if you read my Ten Blog Laws, I will only suffer it for so long at my blog. I view it as my e-home, and expect to be treated with courtesy here.
“I obviously don’t have the intelligence you possessed when you were eight”
Isn’t a conclusion you should have drawn. The word you should have used was “information”.
Your statements imply insult. I suggest you read some books on human interaction.
“I might look at your cited links sometime if I feel like it.”
Thanks very much. http://jazzroc.wordpress.com is chock full of links.
“trusting in a compassionate Supreme Being that is very interested in my ultimate well being”
Doesn’t mean a thing to me. Why does he let Hezbollah’s rockets land in Israel?
He doesn’t force you or I or Hezbollah to be good. He doesn’t force Israel to exercise some common sense and actually act like a government. He didn’t create a bunch of robots, that’s why.
If you care about rockets landing on innocent Israelis, join the battle to put a stop to it. Because you don’t help in that effort doesn’t mean you don’t exist, does it? He has His reasons. Human evil is proof of human evil. It doesn’t prove or disprove the existence of an Intelligent Designer. Since I’m not omnipotent and omniscient, He sometimes thinks beyond my understanding.
“I prefer spending the bulk of my blogging time alerting people to obvious, real and present dangers that are very palpable — such as the global threat to our way of life by fanatic jihadis, and to defending small, beleaguered nations that mean no harm to anyone.”
I would have thought a REAL global threat to be CLIMATE CHANGE… Are you burning fossil fuels?
Ah, now we see a bigger slice of your worldview. Perhaps climate change is a bigger threat. I doubt the Israelis living along the Gaza belt or near the Lebanese border would concur with you.
You don’t actually believe all that bogus crap do you? Let’s see, you helped invent the internet and you are deeply concerned about what used to be called global warming. I noticed since many parts of the world have experienced some extra cold winters, the term has been changed to “climate change”.
Is Al Gore visiting my blog? I didn’t know you were Welsh and had moved to the Canary Islands Al? How’s it going??? Did you keep that beard?
All kidding aside, I will look over your site. I do get curious, and welcome opposing, sensible information.
I take issue with your tone. You are going to lose your audience if you continue to imply that people who ascribe to this theory are all candidates for the mental institution. So, if you are a true activist against this particular conspiracy theory, unless you prefer inhabiting your own echo chamber, I suggest you reconsider how you approach the intended audience.
For example: Not 10 seconds into reading I find the term “multiple paranoia.”
Perhaps there is a reason for the distrust that many people have of big government and big business. The utter lack of integrity that is revealed time and time again has taught the average person that there are conspiracies out there. They don’t have to be large, worldwide conspiracies to take over the world. Just your average corporate conspiracy or government conspiracy that says the well-being of my neighbors and their children doesn’t matter to me as much as my money/power base, my huge profit margin.
Even if these theories are promoted by nutcases, the type of distrust that fuels the questions, and the fact that we can all discuss our views with a wide audience on the internet might do something to keep the greedy fatcats in line somewhat.
elyakatz // 24/03/2009 at 05:08
BS”D
Tony wrote: “Well, I’m a Welshman, my name’s Tony Duncan, I’m a retired designer (I designed the world’s first mass-produced ethernet transceiver, the basic unit of all networks, including the WWW, so I think you can assume I’m in favor of freedom of expression), now living in the Canary Isles.”
So, Tony, I have an off-topic question for you. If you are living in the Canary Islands, why does my “Clustr Map” not show a little red dot off the NW coast of Africa? I know your IP address comes out of Spain, but there are other island visitors, and their visits are recorded from their islands.
BTW, I don’t doubt your credentials. I have family members who have patents on inventions, have been part of the development of the microchip, the modern PC, and were part of the team that developed the prototypes to our modern cellphones. They don’t have great people skills either. Maybe you’re better at it in person?
I was just having some fun at your expense. You’ve got the gift of sarcasm, something I recognize in myself, and when it’s aimed my way, I understand why it is so annoying. It actually distracts from the point being discussed. (Note to self.)
Anyway, re Al Gore, you’ve got to see the parallel…
jazzroc // 24/03/2009 at 06:22
“I’m not going to be held responsible for what “they say”. Argue with “them” about their irresponsible claims.”
I wasn’t trying to hold you responsible.
“I don’t necessarily recommend so-called “health drinks” either. Plain food is the best food, or made homemade in one’s own kitchen. You make my point. Many things are not revealed to the public until after they suffer the effects.”
My sentiments entirely. Failure to reveal is often an incompetence. One cannot reveal what one hasn’t perceived.
“The bias I refer to is one that claims “no harm done”, whatever it is we’re doing, don’t worry about it.”
In ‘53 no harm was being done by flight. The same today, and at all times in-between.
“Cute. I see evidence of Him, such as, eh…the Universe.”
And you think I am cute…
“But trusting other people’s words, actions and intentions certainly requires something akin to faith.”
Not really in the science world. One strike – and kiss your career goodbye. Scientists get prizes for proving other scientists wrong.
“Not to my satisfaction it doesn’t.”
But a two-thousand-year-old myth propagated by nomadic tribesman is OK?
“Something as amazing and orderly as the universe doesn’t happen through random activity. It’s common sense, something often profoundly lacking in the over-educated.”
The starting point of the Universe is multi-dimensional geometrics. ‘Random’ isn’t part of the game, and never was. It is mathematics. Commonsense says the Sun circles the Earth. The correct INTERPRETATION of what one’s senses tell one is ALWAYS profoundly lacking in the under-educated.
“You have a funny way of showing you don’t mind my questions, and some of my views are expressed on the blog. I have no strong conviction one way or the other on the question of chemtrails.”
Am I not answering your questions? Am I not asking you more questions? Have I said I have minded your questions?
“You’re insulting, and if you read my Ten Blog Laws, I will only suffer it for so long at my blog. I view it as my e-home, and expect to be treated with courtesy here.”
I’m sorry if you believe I’ve insulted you. There was no intent on my part.
“Your statements imply insult. I suggest you read some books on human interaction.”
Ah, “imply”. I’ve read a few books… I’m trying to be quick and concise. Try not to mistake it for rudeness.
“He doesn’t force you or I or Hezbollah to be good. He doesn’t force Israel to exercise some common sense and actually act like a government. He didn’t create a bunch of robots, that’s why. If you care about rockets landing on innocent Israelis, join the battle to put a stop to it. Because you don’t help in that effort doesn’t mean you don’t exist, does it? He has His reasons. Human evil is proof of human evil. It doesn’t prove or disprove the existence of an Intelligent Designer. Since I’m not omnipotent and omniscient, He sometimes thinks beyond my understanding.”
….
“Ah, now we see a bigger slice of your worldview. Perhaps climate change is a bigger threat. I doubt the Israelis living along the Gaza belt or near the Lebanese border would concur with you.”
Well I can’t give my world-view to you in parallel, can I? It is a serial thing.
“You don’t actually believe all that bogus crap do you? Let’s see, you helped invent the internet and you are deeply concerned about what used to be called global warming. I noticed since many parts of the world have experienced some extra cold winters, the term has been changed to “climate change”. Is Al Gore visiting my blog? I didn’t know you were Welsh and had moved to the Canary Islands Al? How’s it going??? Did you keep that beard? All kidding aside, I will look over your site. I do get curious, and welcome opposing, sensible information.”
How many pictures of glaciers which have consistently receded since 1850 would you like to receive? I kept the beard…
“I take issue with your tone. You are going to lose your audience if you continue to imply that people who ascribe to this theory are all candidates for the mental institution. So, if you are a true activist against this particular conspiracy theory, unless you prefer inhabiting your own echo chamber, I suggest you reconsider how you approach the intended audience. For example: Not 10 seconds into reading I find the term “multiple paranoia.”
Truth side-stepped is time wasted. There’s a lot to write about.
“Perhaps there is a reason for the distrust that many people have of big government and big business. The utter lack of integrity that is revealed time and time again has taught the average person that there are conspiracies out there. They don’t have to be large, worldwide conspiracies to take over the world. Just your average corporate conspiracy or government conspiracy that says the well-being of my neighbors and their children doesn’t matter to me as much as my money/power base, my huge profit margin. Even if these theories are promoted by nutcases, the type of distrust that fuels the questions, and the fact that we can all discuss our views with a wide audience on the internet might do something to keep the greedy fatcats in line somewhat.”
I couldn’t agree more. I worked for over sixty companies and only three were WYSIWYG. Their management was the best, and it was a pleasure working for them. That’s 5%, isn’t it?
“So, Tony, I have an off-topic question for you. If you are living in the Canary Islands, why does my “Cluster Map” not show a little red dot off the NE coast of Africa? I know your IP address comes out of Spain, but there are other island visitors, and their visits are recorded from their islands.”
My bad. Will do.
“BTW, I don’t doubt your credentials. I have family members who have been part of the development of the microchip, the modern PC, and were part of the team that developed the prototypes to our modern cellphones. I was just having some fun at your expense. You’ve got the gift of sarcasm, something I recognize in myself, and when it’s aimed my way, I understand why it is so annoying. It actually distracts from the point being discussed. Note to self. Anyway, re Al Gore, you’ve got to see the parallel…”
Yes, you’ve been making me feel like a kettle, but san fairy ann.
jazzroc // 24/03/2009 at 06:44
Elya, I think I can see my “dot” on the full map key.
It goes in automatically, does it not?
elyakatz // 24/03/2009 at 07:47
“I’m not going to be held responsible for what “they say”. Argue with “them” about their irresponsible claims.”
I wasn’t trying to hold you responsible.
Well okay then. Then what are their claims doing on my site, in your comments? I’d like the discussion to stay in the context of what I’ve brought forth, which is pretty much…hey, is anything going on out there?
“I don’t necessarily recommend so-called “health drinks” either. Plain food is the best food, or made homemade in one’s own kitchen. You make my point. Many things are not revealed to the public until after they suffer the effects.”
My sentiments entirely. Failure to reveal is often an incompetence. One cannot reveal what one hasn’t perceived.
B.S. For example: It is a known fact that there is lead in baby formula and that flouride has no general health benefit, in fact, it is deleterious. Applied directly to the teeth, it’s a great antimicrobial, but so is hydrogen peroxide, much less harmful to humans. Yet feeding babies formula is marketed as second only to “mother’s milk” instead of the formula manufacturers being jailed for negligence at the very least. And flouride is put into our water supplies to prevent cavities.
I could go on and on as far as the food supply is concerned. One starts to wonder, but then the greed factor comes to mind, and it all makes sense.
“The bias I refer to is one that claims “no harm done”, whatever it is we’re doing, don’t worry about it.”
In ‘53 no harm was being done by flight. The same today, and at all times in-between.
Look, many things make it to market that shouldn’t be on the market, based on flawed “studies”. If people see hatch-marks above their homes day after day, I guess one could justify their various musings. Is the pilot drunk, is he a frustrated technical artist?? Are only those who read scientific studies allowed to wonder? Maybe the videos are fake. I don’t know.
“Cute. I see evidence of Him, such as, eh…the Universe.”
And you think I am cute…
I know of many scientists who think it the height of idiocy to think that an orderly universe, miraculous down to the molecular level, could have happened accidentally, without Intelligent Design. Some previously godless people who then studied the sciences were forced by their own intelligence to acknowledge a Supreme being the more they studied. Maybe you don’t study the natural sciences enough??
“But trusting other people’s words, actions and intentions certainly requires something akin to faith.”
Not really in the science world. One strike – and kiss your career goodbye. Scientists get prizes for proving other scientists wrong.
How is that relevant to this discussion? It has nothing to do with whether there is a political agenda going on in relation to chemtrails, or the food supply. Scientists can be notoriously short-sighted when it comes to the realities of evil, the political world, how public opinion and “received” wisdom is disseminated.
“Not to my satisfaction it doesn’t.”
But a two-thousand-year-old myth propagated by nomadic tribesman is OK?
Two thousand year old myth? Which myth are you referring to? Then we can go further with that discussion.
“Something as amazing and orderly as the universe doesn’t happen through random activity. It’s common sense, something often profoundly lacking in the over-educated.”
The starting point of the Universe is multi-dimensional geometrics. ‘Random’ isn’t part of the game, and never was. It is mathematics. Commonsense says the Sun circles the Earth. The correct INTERPRETATION of what one’s senses tell one is ALWAYS profoundly lacking in the under-educated.
“You have a funny way of showing you don’t mind my questions, and some of my views are expressed on the blog. I have no strong conviction one way or the other on the question of chemtrails.”
Am I not answering your questions? Am I not asking you more questions? Have I said I have minded your questions?
You have not yet acknowledged your condescending, and insulting tone. One can present facts without ridiculing one’s opponents, and in fact, I’ve been told that it actually enhances one’s argument if one refrains from words that could be contrued as denegrating, even if one’s opponents richly deserve it. (Note to self — read Eshet Hayil during the week.)
“You’re insulting, and if you read my Ten Blog Laws, I will only suffer it for so long at my blog. I view it as my e-home, and expect to be treated with courtesy here.”
I’m sorry if you believe I’ve insulted you. There was no intent on my part.
“Your statements imply insult. I suggest you read some books on human interaction.”
Ah, “imply”. I’ve read a few books… I’m trying to be quick and concise. Try not to mistake it for rudeness.
Deluded indeed. I found many wasted words in your comments.
“He doesn’t force you or I or Hezbollah to be good. He doesn’t force Israel to exercise some common sense and actually act like a government. He didn’t create a bunch of robots, that’s why. If you care about rockets landing on innocent Israelis, join the battle to put a stop to it. Because you don’t help in that effort doesn’t mean you don’t exist, does it? He has His reasons. Human evil is proof of human evil. It doesn’t prove or disprove the existence of an Intelligent Designer. Since I’m not omnipotent and omniscient, He sometimes thinks beyond my understanding.”
….
“Ah, now we see a bigger slice of your worldview. Perhaps climate change is a bigger threat. I doubt the Israelis living along the Gaza belt or near the Lebanese border would concur with you.”
Well I can’t give my world-view to you in parallel, can I? It is a serial thing.
Gotcha. You caught me in some sarcasm there. You and I have pretty much opposite worldviews, but if we can agree that it’s important to treat people with dignity and respect, that’s a good starting point for a discussion.
“You don’t actually believe all that bogus crap do you? Let’s see, you helped invent the internet and you are deeply concerned about what used to be called global warming. I noticed since many parts of the world have experienced some extra cold winters, the term has been changed to “climate change”. Is Al Gore visiting my blog? I didn’t know you were Welsh and had moved to the Canary Islands Al? How’s it going??? Did you keep that beard? All kidding aside, I will look over your site. I do get curious, and welcome opposing, sensible information.”
How many pictures of glaciers which have consistently receded since 1850 would you like to receive? I kept the beard…
Smile.
“I take issue with your tone. You are going to lose your audience if you continue to imply that people who ascribe to this theory are all candidates for the mental institution. So, if you are a true activist against this particular conspiracy theory, unless you prefer inhabiting your own echo chamber, I suggest you reconsider how you approach the intended audience. For example: Not 10 seconds into reading I find the term “multiple paranoia.”
Truth side-stepped is time wasted. There’s a lot to write about.
Some of the people promoting these various c-spiracies are mentally unbalanced. Some, I personally think, are “change agents” trying to unbalance people and get them all worked up. Most are just ordinary people who’ve been unhinged by a century of betrayal and murder the likes of which the world has never seen, and are trying to do their best to stay ahead of the curve, in order to protect their loved ones. But where does one find reliable information? Seems nearly everyone is lying. That’s how I feel. Everyone has their agenda, very few are strictly telling the truth to the best of their knowledge.
“Perhaps there is a reason for the distrust that many people have of big government and big business. The utter lack of integrity that is revealed time and time again has taught the average person that there are conspiracies out there. They don’t have to be large, worldwide conspiracies to take over the world. Just your average corporate conspiracy or government conspiracy that says the well-being of my neighbors and their children doesn’t matter to me as much as my money/power base, my huge profit margin. Even if these theories are promoted by nutcases, the type of distrust that fuels the questions, and the fact that we can all discuss our views with a wide audience on the internet might do something to keep the greedy fatcats in line somewhat.”
I couldn’t agree more. I worked for over sixty companies and only three were WYSIWYG. Their management was the best, and it was a pleasure working for them. That’s 5%, isn’t it?
Some common ground.
“So, Tony, I have an off-topic question for you. If you are living in the Canary Islands, why does my “Cluster Map” not show a little red dot off the NE coast of Africa? I know your IP address comes out of Spain, but there are other island visitors, and their visits are recorded from their islands.”
My bad. Will do.
“BTW, I don’t doubt your credentials. I have family members who have been part of the development of the microchip, the modern PC, and were part of the team that developed the prototypes to our modern cellphones. I was just having some fun at your expense. You’ve got the gift of sarcasm, something I recognize in myself, and when it’s aimed my way, I understand why it is so annoying. It actually distracts from the point being discussed. Note to self. Anyway, re Al Gore, you’ve got to see the parallel…”
Yes, you’ve been making me feel like a kettle, but san fairy ann.
Must some Welsh metaphor. There’s no doubt some cultural hurdles here to overcome.
elyakatz // 24/03/2009 at 08:01
BS”D
I’ll take a look. It’s Ellie BTW. Elya is the hubby. Truthfully, I’ve always done the posts, with hubby’s input of course. I used the name Elya for a while due to jihadi threats of the past. Deep incognito…;-)
elyakatz // 24/03/2009 at 08:08
BS”D
I don’t see it. Maybe you get a slightly different image than I do, catered to your location?? Anyway, sounds like a beautiful place to live. So, as a Welshman, what is your position on the Royal family? Do the Welsh in general feel hostility or affection for them? (Bet you don’t get that question a lot.)
I have a special interest in Celtic culture. I claim no expertise, only dabbling in a bit of history and music here and there. I simply think the Celts of the British Isles have a lovely and fascinating history and culture. Tragic though.
jazzroc // 24/03/2009 at 09:35
“Hey, is anything going on out there? What are their claims doing on my site, in your comments?”
“Lead in baby formula / flouride / hydrogen peroxide”
My second daughter couldn’t suckle naturally. We all went through hell till we discovered she thrived on Carnation Milk. She’s an athlete and a scientist who is now expecting her second child. We’ve all been fluoridated to a degree, but use H2O2 as you do. We are GOOD.
“I could go on and on as far as the food supply is concerned. One starts to wonder, but then the greed factor comes to mind, and it all makes sense.”
That’s too easy. It’s less about greed than it is about stupidity. I worry too about unpredictable cumulative effects. It seems a very good idea to me to be as widely omnivorous as it’s possible to be.
“Maybe the videos are fake. I don’t know.”
There are fraudulently fake chemtrail videos, but not about trail patterns. They exist all right. They are produced by the civil airline business and the prevailing wind direction, and atmospheric humidity variations. They are natural.
“Cute. I see evidence of Him, such as, eh…the Universe.”
And you think I am cute…
“an orderly universe, miraculous down to the molecular level, could have happened accidentally”
Is a statement which is a completely false supposition. There are neither miracles nor accidents. Neither are necessary. Nor is G-d.
“You don’t study the natural sciences enough?”
Quite true. But truer still in your case.
“But trusting other people’s words, actions and intentions certainly requires something akin to faith.”
Not really in the science world. One strike – and kiss your career goodbye. Scientists get prizes for proving other scientists wrong.
“How is that relevant to this discussion? It has nothing to do with whether there is a political agenda going on in relation to chemtrails, or the food supply.”
Scientists’ concern is the understanding of material reality. When they stray from that they are called to account. Believe it.
“Scientists can be notoriously short-sighted when it comes to the realities of evil, the political world, how public opinion and “received” wisdom is disseminated.”
Unfortunately that is frequently a consequence of their place of work. Why haven’t you mentioned the appalling lack of professional standards of the managerial “profession”?
“Two thousand year old myth? Which myth are you referring to?”
“You have not yet acknowledged your condescending, and insulting tone. One can present facts without ridiculing one’s opponents”
Enough already. You’d know it if I had insulted you.
“(Note to self — read Eshet Hayil during the week.)”
Do it now.
“Deluded indeed. I found many wasted words in your comments.”
Obviously.
“Gotcha. You caught me in some sarcasm there. You and I have pretty much opposite worldviews, but if we can agree that it’s important to treat people with dignity and respect, that’s a good starting point for a discussion.”
I do agree.
“Some of the people promoting these various c-spiracies are mentally unbalanced. Some, I personally think, are “change agents” trying to unbalance people and get them all worked up. Most are just ordinary people who’ve been unhinged by a century of betrayal and murder the likes of which the world has never seen”
No. It’s always been the same. Only the technology has improved.
“and are trying to do their best to stay ahead of the curve, in order to protect their loved ones. But where does one find reliable information? Seems nearly everyone is lying. That’s how I feel. Everyone has their agenda, very few are strictly telling the truth to the best of their knowledge.”
I did so throughout my work history. Net result: zero. A zero-sum game.
“Some common ground.”
As long as one stands on one leg.
“Yes, you’ve been making me feel like a kettle, but san fairy ann. – Must some Welsh metaphor. There’s no doubt some cultural hurdles here to overcome.
“It’s Ellie BTW. Elya is the hubby. Truthfully, I’ve always done the posts, with hubby’s input of course.”
Hi, Ellie. I saw that somewhere but wasn’t sure. (Short-term memory lapse.)
“I don’t see it. Maybe you get a slightly different image than I do, catered to your location?”
There’s a button to expand the map completely. It shows there.
“sounds like a beautiful place to live.”
It’s an eleven million year old volcano (actually 84 of them), jutting out of the Atlantic Ocean, with one active vent which erupts every hundred years. It’s due. The peak (Mt. Teide) is 12,000 ft high so there is reasonably abundant water, fertile soil, and plentiful sunshine. What’s more to want?
“What is your position on the Royal family?”
I’m a republican.
“Do the Welsh in general feel hostility or affection for them? (Bet you don’t get that question a lot.)”
No, they don’t feel either, unless they have pretensions to the throne. After WW2 they felt considerable affection – but that has faded. Personally I like Prince Charles and share his enthusiasm for natural living and permaculture. This is generally despised by Royalists. I’ve never been asked that before…
“I have a special interest in Celtic culture.”
You should. We are a Semitic race, originating from the neighborhood of Troy.
“I claim no expertise, only dabbling in a bit of history and music here and there. I simply think the Celts of the British Isles have a lovely and fascinating history and culture. Tragic though.”
A natural consequence of living next to the English.
I’m married to one… Google (image) “beachcomber jazzroc” and you may see where I live and those whom I live with. Try http://jazzroc.wordpress.com for my battle against CTs.
elyakatz // 24/03/2009 at 11:45
BS”D
“Hey, is anything going on out there? What are their claims doing on my site, in your comments?”
You do like to jumble things up when you quote someone, don’t you.
“Lead in baby formula / flouride / hydrogen peroxide”
My second daughter couldn’t suckle naturally. We all went through hell till we discovered she thrived on Carnation Milk. She’s an athlete and a scientist who is now expecting her second child. We’ve all been fluoridated to a degree, but use H2O2 as you do. We are GOOD.
“I could go on and on as far as the food supply is concerned. One starts to wonder, but then the greed factor comes to mind, and it all makes sense.”
That’s too easy. It’s less about greed than it is about stupidity. I worry too about unpredictable cumulative effects. It seems a very good idea to me to be as widely omnivorous as it’s possible to be.
“Maybe the videos are fake. I don’t know.”
There are fraudulently fake chemtrail videos, but not about trail patterns. They exist all right. They are produced by the civil airline business and the prevailing wind direction, and atmospheric humidity variations. They are natural.
“Cute. I see evidence of Him, such as, eh…the Universe.”
And you think I am cute…
“an orderly universe, miraculous down to the molecular level, could have happened accidentally”
Is a statement which is a completely false supposition. There are neither miracles nor accidents. Neither are necessary. Nor is G-d.
“You don’t study the natural sciences enough?”
Quite true. But truer still in your case.
Maybe. But I’ve spent enough time listening to those who are educated in the natural sciences to know that there is order, and order does not come out of chaos. I make no claims of expertise in this area, only that of a questioning mind.
“But trusting other people’s words, actions and intentions certainly requires something akin to faith.”
Not really in the science world. One strike – and kiss your career goodbye. Scientists get prizes for proving other scientists wrong.
“How is that relevant to this discussion? It has nothing to do with whether there is a political agenda going on in relation to chemtrails, or the food supply.”
Scientists’ concern is the understanding of material reality. When they stray from that they are called to account. Believe it.
“Scientists can be notoriously short-sighted when it comes to the realities of evil, the political world, how public opinion and “received” wisdom is disseminated.”
Unfortunately that is frequently a consequence of their place of work. Why haven’t you mentioned the appalling lack of professional standards of the managerial “profession”?
Because I don’t care about the managerial profession. I care about my family.
“Two thousand year old myth? Which myth are you referring to?”
Okay, well since the tribe is mine, yes, I do ascribe to my own people’s narrative regarding the creation of the world. If one explores the Midrash, Talmud and other classical Jewish sources, things get very interesting indeed. As one close friend who is a scholar has said, the Torah is only meant to be liner notes. It’s not the whole story. If I live by the moral precepts outlined in the Torah, even if the creation story turns out to be allegory or myth, I don’t think I will have wasted my life.
“You have not yet acknowledged your condescending, and insulting tone. One can present facts without ridiculing one’s opponents”
Enough already. You’d know it if I had insulted you.
I don’t think you would though.
“(Note to self — read Eshet Hayil during the week.)”
Do it now.
Ha ha ha.
“Deluded indeed. I found many wasted words in your comments.”
Obviously.
“Gotcha. You caught me in some sarcasm there. You and I have pretty much opposite worldviews, but if we can agree that it’s important to treat people with dignity and respect, that’s a good starting point for a discussion.”
I do agree.
“Some of the people promoting these various c-spiracies are mentally unbalanced. Some, I personally think, are “change agents” trying to unbalance people and get them all worked up. Most are just ordinary people who’ve been unhinged by a century of betrayal and murder the likes of which the world has never seen”
No. It’s always been the same. Only the technology has improved.
You don’t think the last century was the bloodiest in history??
“and are trying to do their best to stay ahead of the curve, in order to protect their loved ones. But where does one find reliable information? Seems nearly everyone is lying. That’s how I feel. Everyone has their agenda, very few are strictly telling the truth to the best of their knowledge.”
I did so throughout my work history. Net result: zero. A zero-sum game.
“Some common ground.”
As long as one stands on one leg.
“Yes, you’ve been making me feel like a kettle, but san fairy ann. – Must some Welsh metaphor. There’s no doubt some cultural hurdles here to overcome.
“It’s Ellie BTW. Elya is the hubby. Truthfully, I’ve always done the posts, with hubby’s input of course.”
Hi, Ellie. I saw that somewhere but wasn’t sure. (Short-term memory lapse.)
“I don’t see it. Maybe you get a slightly different image than I do, catered to your location?”
There’s a button to expand the map completely. It shows there.
I know about the button. It doesn’t show up when I use it here.
“sounds like a beautiful place to live.”
It’s an eleven million year old volcano (actually 84 of them), jutting out of the Atlantic Ocean, with one active vent which erupts every hundred years. It’s due. The peak (Mt. Teide) is 12,000 ft high so there is reasonably abundant water, fertile soil, and plentiful sunshine. What’s more to want?
“What is your position on the Royal family?”
I’m a republican.
??
“Do the Welsh in general feel hostility or affection for them? (Bet you don’t get that question a lot.)”
No, they don’t feel either, unless they have pretensions to the throne. After WW2 they felt considerable affection – but that has faded. Personally I like Prince Charles and share his enthusiasm for natural living and permaculture. This is generally despised by Royalists. I’ve never been asked that before…
“I have a special interest in Celtic culture.”
You should. We are a Semitic race, originating from the neighborhood of Troy.
Okay, well, I’ll have to look into that sometime.
“I claim no expertise, only dabbling in a bit of history and music here and there. I simply think the Celts of the British Isles have a lovely and fascinating history and culture. Tragic though.”
A natural consequence of living next to the English.
I’m married to one… Google (image) “beachcomber jazzroc” and you may see where I live and those whom I live with. Try http://jazzroc.wordpress.com for my battle against CTs.
The English are great at “toying” with other peoples, to put it politely. The mess in the Middle East is pretty much a set-up by them, like they’ve done everywhere else they’ve set foot. Screw up the borders and the cultures, that way you’ll always have to come back and straighten it out.
It’s been fascinating, and I will look over your site when I have the inclination. Enjoy your life on the Canary Islands, and lighten up. A life spent rescuing people from the error of their conspiracy theory ways is a wasted life. (Couldn’t resist.)
I’m not going to pursue this much longer, as it’s not a compelling issue for me. Like I said, I prefer to spend my time on projects where I can actually make a difference.
Readers who are interested are encouraged to look over the sites linked here. Maybe I’ll put some of them on my blogroll at some point. Thanks again!! Feel free to continue commenting. As long as your’re not too nasty, I’ll probably post them……
elyakatz // 25/03/2009 at 03:12
BS”D
Original Quote from Ellie:
Well okay then. Then what are their claims doing on my site, in your comments? I’d like the discussion to stay in the context of what I’ve brought forth, which is pretty much…hey, is anything going on out there?
Your misquotation: “Hey, is anything going on out there? What are their claims doing on my site, in your comments?”
My response to same: “You do like to jumble things up when you quote someone, don’t you.”
Your response: Well maybe you noticed that you had answered your own question.
Doesn’t make sense. Sorry now, this is getting kind of boring and kind of nitpicky on both sides. I’m deleting your last comment and won’t be responding anymore. You’ve made your point. Move on to the hard cases, because I frankly don’t care all that much. The post was more musings than firm convictions one way or the other.
And as a parting shot, if you don’t believe in passing one’s value system down to one’s own children, or the children in one’s chosen community, then you start first. Good luck with that.
Be well.
rainbojangles // 27/03/2009 at 05:24
Jazzroc wrote:
“Scientists get prizes for proving other scientists wrong.”
Now, this does suggest just a TAD bit of fallibility, eh wot?
Faith in a discipline which “gives prizes” for proving itself faulty seems misplaced, and I don’t understand how those who claim to subscribe to empiricism don’t see the irony in their own “logic”.
However, maintaining belief in a “conscious” and judgmental entity outside ourselves which cannot be perceived with the five senses is also misplaced in my personal opinion. I am always so puzzled when God is anthropomorphized. Attempts to imbue God with the most petty and base emotions such as jealousy or anger would seem to me a great “insult” to that which is considered by many to be the most powerful force in the Uni/Multiverse. I know if I was God I wouldn’t spend my time hatin’! If God is, indeed, sitting on “his” heavenly throne scratching “his” beard, I am pretty sure the almighty got bored with us a few thousand years ago and started cosmic cloud watching.
I don’t grok the need to place one’s “faith” in any “thing” other than one’s inner wisdom and truth.
Those blessed ones who “know” God (Jazz., I don’t expect you to grasp this at all.) need no “proof” of God. God simply “IS” for some of us. No belief, no faith, no theories, no dogma, no rationalization, no justification. no book, no trinity, no sacred heart, no dead savior on cross, and no cross sans dead savior When you know God, all of these are just window dressing, or signs some fly hoping to attract others of “theoretically” like mind.
One day I happily realized that God is always “with” those who are able to perceive this awesome truth. I stopped chasing God when I realized that God was never gone.
Jazz:
Your adamant refusal to acknowledge the existence of anything outside your precious doctrine of “information” suggests a lack of intellectual inquisitiveness, not a breadth of understanding. As mentioned above by our lovely and diplomatic host, numerous scientists have “poked out the top” and realized that science has limitations when it comes to answering the “bigger questions” and we are left to wisdom and our inner “knowing”.
Wisdom is something one attains while musing, contemplating, and often doubting when your gut tells you someone or something is wrong. Wisdom, unlike information, is not found poking around test tubes and microscopes, reading about the “facts” discovered by others, or trying to prove your fellows’ theories incorrect so you can win a prize.
Wisdom is sometimes only attained when one abandons the “information” we call “facts”.
Very little in your postings suggested to me that you have had much experience outside that neat little box where everything has an answer, even if it’s wrong.
I have seen you trolling before. I know you are a fervent chemtrail denier and are nearly evangelical in your zeal. I fully expect (though I dread) your response to be more of the same “inside the box” prattle that you have posted all over the net. Your agenda is obvious.
No God, no chemtrials, the government has only our best interests in mind and we don’t need to question them because they have the best scientists, soldiers, and politicians that money can buy. (Is there are smilie for self pleasuring?)
I think somewhere in your maze of dissected and disconnected “call and response” postings above you say that greed is not the main factor.
“It’s less about greed than it is about stupidity.”
I think it would be difficult to quantify, but they both play a major role. The problem is, greed outranks stupidity as the operant agenda.
As far as I am concerned, after the invention of painless dentistry and automatic washing machines, science should have taken a step back and said “Hey, maybe we should only invent things that will directly help humanity and the Earth, instead of bowing to the military corporatocracy and the big bucks they shower on those of us who will do research to benefit them with no concern for the impact on humans? “Hmmmm ……………….Nah!.”
When money talks, morals walk. Oh, but that’s right. Morals are a religious thing, and science has no use for religious things. My bad.
I intentionally tried to avoid the subject of chemtrails in this post, so hopefully Jazz won’t post any more links to his blog.
Thank you, Ellie, for standing toe-to-toe with someone so apparently indoctrinated into the cult of science. Most “intellectual” people are so locked into habitual linear thought patterns that they find it difficult or impossible (it is kind of scary at first) to “let go” and see what lies beyond the veil of thought. There are worlds to experience beyond this reality matrix which we reinforce (or choose not to) every hour of every day. It takes courage to part the curtains and see what happens backstage. Seems a waste to wait until death to have a look.
Blessings.
~Rbj
elyakatz // 27/03/2009 at 06:26
BS”D
Rbj wrote: “Thank you, Ellie, for standing toe-to-toe with someone so apparently indoctrinated into the cult of science. “
First, thanks RBJ. Okay, well when I realized I was participating in a discussion with someone who objected to people of faith passing down that faith to children, and I’m assuming the reference would include one’s own children, I realized the common ground between us was so minimal as to make further discussion and exercise in futility. Since neither of us have time to waste — well, I don’t, I decided to wish Mr. Duncan a good life, and let’s both move on.
Are there a lot of canaries on the Canary Islands? He’s got me intrigued with that place. If there were a minyan there, I’d be tempted to join Mr. Duncan and continue the discussion face to face. Problem is, small islands are easily conquered by despots, and my tribe is weary of them. Don’t know if I could face another, and if I must, I’d rather be better defended, beginning with geographics, if at all possible. Of course, that might rule out Israel, but Israel has other things going for it.
Maybe that’s why I am curious about the chemtrail question. I’m wondering, is this another tentacle of an as yet hidden or partially hidden monstrosity despot government money/power/land/labor/life grab? Because if it is, I’d say we Jews deserve a heads-up for a change. We tend often to the among the first victims.
I watch with incredulity as this, one of my least significant and least informed posts on either side of the argument, approaches the statisitics of my all time most popular post, entitled “Maps That Prove Points”. Besides which, I believe this is the most commented on post I have on this blog.
Bewildering….
“Maps That Prove Points” is another post that took me about 10 minutes to throw together. At least that post discusses a controversy where I can claim a certain, modest level of competency. The reason for the popularity of “Maps That Prove Points” is perplexing for me as well. Those posts that I like to think were well researched, well-written and for which I practically sweat blood over continue on, hoping for more readers, grieving in their relative obscurity.
To quote the Scots, “Weird”.
What makes a post popular guys???
Chag kosher v’sameach to my sisters and brothers, and to all, Bnai Noachim and others, be well. B’imhera v’yamenu.
Ellie
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