It’s always good to hear from you Ice. Made my day…

Enjoyed the Post. But you know me, I enjoy any post that puts a liar in his place. Facts are what they are. And yet, there are some people willing to ignore the Facts and create their own, no matter how far from Truth they roam.

Michelle,

You are not going to offend me… I know a friend when I see one. Just keep being your open, generous, warm self, and Israelis will recognize you for who you are…

Be well,

EK

I just might be going to Israel for a tour in the summer of ‘09 – a long held dream for me, the Lord willing.

Keep shining the light, EK, you are in my prayers. I will keep checking back, you’re on my daily rounds.

Michelle,

I’m going to visit this post from time to time and tweak it with more links to prove my contentions regarding the actual Nazi affiliations that the Palis have, contrasting that to Amayrech’s contention that Jews who support Israel or who are Zionist are the Nazi supporters. The other goal of this post is to prove just how much of a death cult Islam has become…what sort of enemy Israel, and the rest of world are pitted against.

Let me know what you think. I just added a photo of Hezbollah men doing the “salute” today. Last night I added a video proving the connection between the former Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler (as well as many Arabs who were inducted in the SS Waffen during WWII).

That’s the main gist of this post…to prove just how much anti-Zionists*** such as Amayrech and Steve Amsel twist the truth.

***That’s their cover. They don’t fool anyone. They are antisemites.

Michelle,

We were both writing at the same time. I kept thinking of more to say….

You write, “I don’t desire to define you, I wouldn’t know where to start, except the Abrahamic cov’t. I’m just trying to understand the policy and what is its basis. So, are you saying being Jewish is totally faith-based or is there a genetic component?”

You may not personally desire to define the Jewish people or Judaism, but that is a problem that we face. I was merely challenging the desire for others to define us, not you personally. I am addressing your comments more universally. You bring up good points.

The question of “who is a Jew” has been asked over and over again, my guess — for thousands of years. The best definition I have heard is thus: Being a member of the Jewish people is a faith system that is passed down generationally.

To that definition, I have come to add the following. Being Jewish can also be conferred upon a person who so chooses by submitting to a supervised halachic conversion process. Being Jewish can be lost as well, being a faith that is passed to the next generation. If a given generation holds their identity within the Jewish people lightly, then either their children or their grandchildren will most likely no longer be Jewish.

Then there is the question of what it means to be “chosen”. I would again encourage you to read Hyam Maccoby’s book “The Mythmaker”. In there, as well as in many other books written by religious Jews, is an excellent explanation of what it means to be “chosen”. The chosenness is not a position that allows us to exercise oppressive authority over other peoples. (I don’t consider a strong self-defense policy and practice as oppressive authority over other peoples) We are chosen to teach the world how we all can draw close to HKB”H, and what He requires of us all. It’s a responsibility that isn’t to be taken lightly.

And, I’m sorry to have to admit, we’re not always doing the job as HKB”H would like like us to do. Having suffered for so long under the persecution of antisemites, I think we’re a traumatized people, and have often responded by withdrawing into ourselves. We need to come out of that mindset and re-establish ourselves in the position for which we’ve been chosen by HKB”H, in order to accomplish our purpose.

I see that changing, and I see the existence of the State of Israel as a step in that direction, if only we would, as a people, make the decision to run the State of Israel according to the Torah.

Again you write, “That’s what I’ve always thought – but considering my age, it’s not really a possibility. But for my sons, if they felt HaShem was calling them to this role, you don’t believe the state of Israel would refuse them based upon their faith, do you?”

I don’t know, but from what I’ve heard from friends who’ve looked into that possibility, I don’t think Israel would refuse them on that basis, as long as they served in the IDF. There are past examples of such.

You ask, “So it is contrary to your way of thinking for me to declare myself a “Christian Zionist”?”

Not at all. As long as there isn’t a hidden religious agenda, I welcome the generosity of heart that I’ve witnessed personally from Christian Zionists. From an historical perspective, it blows me away.

You write, “I completely understand Israel’s choice to deny me citizenship based upon the need for safety. I am just wanting to know if my willingness to fight, to sacrifice for Israel is acceptable.”

Not only is this “acceptable” — to my way of thinking anyway — it’s a rare treasure, because you don’t have to — your back isn’t against the wall, and you choose to identify with us, a people who I think easily qualify as the most harassed people in history. Certainly, we are outnumbered!!

I wouldn’t treat that lightly. The haters of the world won’t stand the light of day in the face of people like you.

Do keep this in mind. My people have been hurt, and have been betrayed over and over again. If you ever choose to move to Israel, or visit Israel, or if anyone you know does so, don’t be surprised if some are not sure about you at first. There is skepticism. It’s necessary and it’s healthy, but it will test your love at times. Consider those moments as an opportunity to grow. When those we love don’t see us as genuine, it hurts. We can get through the pain by considering such times as opportunities to stretch ourselves spiritually. Eventually, when someone who isn’t Jewish manages to come through those times with solidarity intact, their genuineness is recognized.

I am in total agreement. Israel must remain a safe haven. No other place on the face of the earth is safe, the sickness of antisemitism is everywhere. Although, having said that, even Israel is not looking so safe these days.

I completely understand Israel’s choice to deny me citizenship based upon the need for safety. I am just wanting to know if my willingness to fight, to sacrifice for Israel is acceptable.

I don’t desire to define you, I wouldn’t know where to start, except the Abrahamic cov’t. I’m just trying to understand the policy and what is its basis. So, are you saying being Jewish is totally faith-based or is there a genetic component?

“If someone who is not Jewish chooses to join the IDF and fight for Israel, it is my understanding that they are given automatic citizenship.”

That’s what I’ve always thought – but considering my age, it’s not really a possibility. But for my sons, if they felt HaShem was calling them to this role, you don’t believe the state of Israel would refuse them based upon their faith, do you?

So it is contrary to your way of thinking for me to declare myself a “Christian Zionist”?

I’m not trying to put you on the spot, I’m just really wondering if it’s an anathema.

Michelle,

Christians can certainly move to Israel and become permanent residents. But, unless a non-Jew is born in Israel, they don’t qualify under the “Law of Return” which offers nearly unconditional citizenship to those who are Jewish halachically.

Israel was created as a haven for the Jewish people, and as any country must do, Israel defines it’s own laws. The Supreme Court of Israel ruled that Gary and Shirley Beresford were not Jewish any longer as defined by Jewish law. They could have applied as permanent residents of Israel if they chose, but not under the Law of Return.

Messianics are not the only sect that rabbinic authorities have ruled are outside the parameters of Judaism. There have been many such sects within Judaism that have formed, departed from the tenets of Judaism, and then have been declared non-Jewish.

This is where the test comes as to whether a person truly supports Jews as Jews, or whether there is possibly a subconscious agenda in one’s support. If you can accept that Jews have a right to decide for themselves what precisely constitutes Judaism, even if it excludes something in your belief system, that is true solidarity with the Jewish people.

In your quest to be truly supportive, to truly stand with the Jewish people, yet remain a Christian yourself, I would encourage you to keep in mind that the Jewish people do not desire to define for Christians who is a Christian, or to define for Muslims who is a Muslim. The same courtesy needs to be extended to us. We define ourselves, not others.

Israel is complicated. It’s a democracy, but it’s a Jewish democracy. That is a tough balance to maintain. Some even question whether it can be maintained. My view is that if the Torah was truly followed within the government, and served as the constitution of the State of Israel, then the rights of non-Jews who choose to live in Israel would certainly be respected. Having said that, I don’t think the Torah will be used in this way until the Messianic era. So, what we have to do in the meantime is work towards that day.

As far as the willingness to die for Israel conferring certain rights, I might be mistaken, but I have heard through various sources, though I haven’t looked into it myself, that Israel recognizes this principle. If someone who is not Jewish chooses to join the IDF and fight for Israel, it is my understanding that they are given automatic citizenship at some point. I don’t know how long it takes or what the process is.

You may have a hard time accepting all this, because you are someone who does have a genuine love for the Jewish people and for the State of Israel. I can write that with confidence, because of all you have written here. So, how can anyone doubt you?

Keep in mind, there are antisemitic Jewish Christians out there, former Jews who converted to Christianity under less friendly teachings. They have written to me here, very angry, sizzling comments that make it obvious to me, they don’t consider me fully human, or at least — I have no human rights in their eyes. The blogger who operates the desertpeace blog, (a WordPress blog BTW) was born Jewish. He has never written me here, but I think it’s crazy that he lives in Israel. It seems he is aiding and comforting the enemy and is guilty of treason, and in a time of war no less.

Israel must keep it’s guard firmly in place, and have very strong limits of enforcement for their laws, or they will be inundated with haters and antisemites, right in their midst, which defeats the entire premise of a Jewish state.

Would that the current government maintained these boundaries perfectly. But then, we wouldn’t need or hope for Messiah Ben David, would we?

As a Christian Zionist I stand with Israel…I have always said if it came down to America working against Israel, I would stand for Israel. Now I see that Israel would rather I didn’t? Is that what is meant by some Jewish Christians not being allowed to make aliya? I’m not asking for myself, I am a gentile, but I don’t understand the declining of immigration based upon faith, if the desire is to back Israel with one’s life.